Second-hand advice on turbo motorcycles

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Second-hand advice on turbo motorcycles

Second-hand advice on turbo motorcycles
Company hot air

The heated start to turbo-charging turned the four Japanese motorcycle manufacturers into a flop. Buyers gave the cold shoulder.

Peter Limmert

07/06/1998

Rarely in the large series production of the four Japanese motorcycle companies, which is so spoiled for success, has a period fully described as an era passed as quickly as that which the turbo motorcycles heralded. From the debut of the market leader Honda with the CX 500 Turbo in Germany in 1981 to the model discontinuation of the late starter Kawasaki Z 750 It took Turbo just five years.
In between, 1982 also had Yamaha with the XJ 650 Turbo and Suzuki with the XN 85 a turbo model in the program. And in 1993, Honda had once again topped up with the larger V 2 model, the CX 650.
The only brand that kept a low profile from the start was Suzuki. Although she invited the press to take a test drive on her turbo model, an air-cooled four-cylinder engine with electronic injection, to Japan, she did not even import the model to Germany.
The sales figures for Honda and Yamaha were the same – and were and were modest: CX 500 Turbo (1982 to 1985) 379, CX 650 (1983 to 1985) 56. Yamaha sold 315 units of the XJ 650 Turbo (1982 to 1986). Only late starters Kawasaki sold 1502 Z 750 Turbo machines between 1983 and 1987.
In terms of numbers, that was the turbo era. In terms of development costs, it was also a major blow for the four largest motorcycle manufacturers in the world.
In 1981 BMW had the prestige project Futuro built by the Buchmann team in Frankfurt for the 800 cm³ boxer with turbocharger and charge air cooling, but during the experiment it quickly came to the conclusion that the turbo disadvantages in the medium speed range and the delayed use of power are too risky. The Munich-based company consequently etched in advertising for their staid boxer: “What others blow up, we have blown off.”
The economic failure probably has several causes. The most obvious are the high price, the electronics that were not yet fully developed at the time and the high weight. Example: the pioneer of the turbo trend, the Honda CX 500 Turbo, cost around 13,000 marks when it debuted in 1981. A BMW R 100 RT, Ducati 900 SS Hailwood-Replica, Suzuki GS 1100 E Katana or an in-house CB 900 F Bol d? Or were in this order of magnitude.
176 units of the first turbo with 82 hp were sold in this country in 1982. Honda reacted and pushed the 100 hp CX 650 afterwards. How is Honda’s most potent turbo project going today? MOTORRAD put the test to the test.
Up to around 4500 tours you are amazed because the machine, which is designed for leisurely tours with its lush casing and wide handlebars, acts as harmless and conservative as the normal version. Between 6000 and 9000 rpm, however, the turbo unit bites powerfully and accelerates the 260
Machine weighing kilograms is impressive even by today’s standards. However, on a winding country road, the pilot must quickly adjust to the point in time at which he switches in order to be able to call up the appropriate power range of the engine. Routinely downshifting before a bend can be tricky, because the charger might release a lot of power on the slowest section of the bend. The chassis with air-assisted spring elements at the front and rear feels very soft, the hindquarters have trouble getting the irregularities of the road surface under control. The telescopic fork is also quite soft, but guides the front wheel fairly accurately. The brakes are absolutely inadequate for today’s conditions. Current demands for an exact pressure point and effectiveness of the deceleration are alien to them. After all, the driven machine had 190,000 kilometers on the clock. Owner Dietmar Weinel (see interview and box on page 184) describes the spare parts situation as satisfactory, albeit costly, even today. The turbocharger, “which, however, is absolutely impossible to get down to,” costs 2,700 marks at Honda. Ask about repair options at CX Turbo IG, phone 06048/37 60). Boe (phone 02357/3760) offers a reduction to 98 hp (original 100) for around 180 marks.
In comparison, the Yamaha XJ 650 Turbo did not do badly against the 500 version from Honda. However, the suction model was even a little livelier up to 100 km / h and hardly inferior in top speed. The air-cooled two-valve engine is fed by carburettors and offers the least expensive construction within the turbo trio. Electronics, which were still expensive at the time, were dispensed with as far as possible. In return, the technicians did not save with membranes and bypass ducts to make the turbo propellant suitable for the road.
Today’s XJ 650 drivers must, however, have a talent for improvisation. Because: A new turbocharger is no longer available from Yamaha Germany. Comment from the technical department: “If the loader does not work after the machine has been idle for several years, mostly only the intake flaps are rusted or a ring in the safety valve of the exhaust system is broken.”
The Z 750 Turbo, only offered by Kawasaki in Germany in 1983, was the cheapest and most successful turbo machine at 11,000 marks. The last new copies went in 1989 at dealers again 2000 Marks cheaper. In the original version, the air-cooled two-valve engine with petrol injection developed 112 hp. In Germany, they were limited to 100 hp by modifying the injection system as part of the voluntary limit. The bloodletting will have limited the success of the Z 750 Turbo compared to the other big bikes of that generation. Especially since the in-house competition such as the Z 1100 GP and from 1984 the GP Z 900 R showed neither the abrupt use of power nor the lack of torque in the lower speed range. The largest turbo engine was at the same time the most potent, but also the most heat-prone, when the drivers let the superchargers glow red for hours in the rush of speed on the autobahn, the preferred turbo playground.
New turbochargers are still on offer from Kawasaki, but at a price of 4,850 marks.
The repair of high-revving turbochargers (up to 200,000 rpm) is offered by Powerline (phone 06485/9110 17). The Scheuerlein company in Ansbach (phone 0981/17 554) converts the motor to the conventional vacuum cleaner for around 800 marks in material costs. Or calls the maintenance company TEC Turbo Engineering in California (Fax 001 916 873 3488), which offers a complete charger repair for around 550 dollars.
Those who are still interested in an intact turbo machine today have to shell out between 3000 (Yamaha and 8000 marks (Honda CX 650 T) depending on the condition and brand).
The turbo era on the series motorcycle market did not take place because in the 80s, with the cheaper variant with more displacement, a more motorcycle-specific performance development and thus vehicle control was possible. Whether advanced turbocharger technology like in automobile construction sets a new development in motion? A turbo flop should be enough for the Japanese motorcycle industry.

Reading experiences

Turbo drivers have to be talented improvisers. Where can I have the loader repaired? How do I help myself with the high prices for spare parts?

In 1993 I got the Kawasaki Z 750 Turbo, built in 1986, with a mileage of 25,000 miles, bought used; Today’s mileage is around 50,000. In 1997 the engine received new pistons due to excessive oil consumption. I had already noticed a year earlier that the turbocharger either didn’t build up any pressure at all or only suddenly at high speeds. The reason: too high a bearing clearance. There is the possibility of exchanging the original for an overhauled loader at a special company for around 2500 marks. Or buy a new Garrett turbocharger for about the same price and have it overhauled by normal repair shops. It is extremely important for the lifespan of the charger that the oil pressure is at least 35 psi (approx. 2.4 bar) at 5000 rpm, otherwise the oil pump should be checked. The biggest drawback of the Kawa Turbo is the extremely unwieldy chassis. By adding the brake cylinder of the ZX 10, the brake can be raised almost to the level of modern brake systems in terms of effectiveness and controllability.
Ansgar Robers,
Geesthacht

I owned four Yamaha XJ 650 Turbo at the same time. No defect, no stalling, always reliable, but high fuel consumption of up to twelve liters. I bought the first one in 1990 and drove around 25,000 kilometers with it until 1996. Not a single visit to the workshop, I did everything myself. It is important to warm up the engine slowly and let it run for a minute when it is switched off so that the oil can cool the loader down. I bought the other three just for spare parts; I’ve now sold them all, but have a lot of spare parts that I never needed.
Siegfried Wodarzyk,
Hamburg

My currently used Honda CX 650 Turbo has now run about 190,000 kilometers. The same applies to the 650 and 500 series: The original tires are no longer available. The only alternative with TuV is Bridgestone BT 17 in original size. The biggest technical weakness is not the charger, but the alternator, which gives up after about 50,000 kilometers. Better than the original is the stator of the Honda VFR 750 R (built in 1986), which fits into the housing with a slight change to the plug and cable routing. The valves should be adjusted every 5000 kilometers. The adjusting screws must be unscrewed and checked for a damaged hardness layer. Also check the valve stems for pitting scars. First it’s the screws, then the shafts, and if you don’t do anything, the valve guides and valve seats also knock out. The cylinder heads should be overhauled approximately every 50,000 kilometers. At the same time, replace the hose that supplies the loader with oil. If the 500 series suffers from uneven engine running and misfires, the PB sensor is probably defective. You can check this by simply unplugging the blue connector while the engine is running. If it swallows briefly and then runs smoothly, the emergency program is in use and the plug is open.
Dietmar Weinel,
Budingen

Technical data: Honda CX 650 (500) Turbo

Honda CX 650 (500) TurboTechnical dataEngineWater-cooled two-cylinder, four-stroke, 80-degree V-engine with exhaust gas turbocharger, an underneath camshaft, four valves per cylinder operated via push rods and rocker arms, electronic fuel injection, five-speed gearbox, shaft drive. Displacement 668 (497 ) cm3, compression ratio 7.8 (7.2): 1, rated output 100 PS (74 kW) at 8000 / min (82 PS (60 kW) at 8000 / min) Max. torque 10.5 kpm (103 Nm) at 4500 / min (8.1kpm (79.4 Nm) at 5000 / min) Chassis double loop frame, air-assisted telescopic fork, mechanical anti-dive, air-assisted central shock absorber, variable rebound, tire size 100/90 (3.50) V 18 front, 120/90 V 17 rear , Suspension travel 130 mm at the front, 105 mm at the rear, tank capacity 20 liters, weight 256 (260) kg Test values ​​Maximum speed solo / with pillion 218 (192) / 212 (185) km / h Acceleration 0-100 km / h solo / with pillion 4.1 (4.7) / 5.2 (5.6) secConsumption 6 to 9 liters / 100 kmSpare part pricesHeadlight 644 MarkFront wheel 1118 M arkCover complete 4531 Mark one brake disc front 816 Mark Cardan shaft 584 Mark two spark plugs 56 Mark one gasoline filter 144 Mark one pressure sensor 553 Mark one alternator 1449 Mark Loader complete 2700 (3182) Mark test in MOTORCYCLE1Honda CX 500 TurboTest 22/1981Comparison test 13 / 1982Turbo test 1 / 1983FootTestonda 11 CX 650 : 1Tests can be ordered from the publisher, telephone see box on page xxx.

Technical data: Yamaha XJ 650 Turbo

Yamaha XJ 650 TurboTechnical dataEngineAir-cooled four-cylinder four-stroke in-line engine with exhaust gas turbocharger, two valves per cylinder, dohc, four Mikuni equal pressure carburettors, displacement 653 cm³, compression ratio 8.5: 1, rated output 90 PS (67 kW) at 9000 / min, maximum Torque 8.3 kpm (81.7 Nm) at 7500 rpm, five-speed gearbox, secondary drive via cardan shaft, test values ​​maximum speed solo / with pillion 194/188 km / h, acceleration 0 – 100 km / h solo / with pillion 4.9 / 6, Double loop frame made of tubular steel, telescopic fork at the front, swing arm with two spring struts at the rear, spring base adjustable in five positions, double disc brakes at the front, drum brakes at the rear, tires 3.25 V 19 at the front, 120/90 V 18 at the rear, tank capacity / reserve 19/4, weight 262 kg Replacement part prices kompeltt 98 Mark gasoline pump 1119 Mark pressure sensor 268 Markvier spark plugs 28 Mark covering complete 2663 Mark front wheel 1006 Mark brake disc 314 Mark headlight (insert) no longer available Turbocharger no longer left eferbar test in motorcycle driving report 2/1982 test 11/1982 comparison test 13/1982

Technical data: Kawasaki Z 750 Turbo

Kawasaki Z 750 TurboTechnical dataEngineAir-cooled four-cylinder four-stroke in-line engine with exhaust gas turbocharger, two valves per cylinder, dohc, electronic fuel injection, displacement 738 cm³, compression 7.8, rated output 100 PS (74 kW) at 9000 / min, maximum torque 10 , 1 kpm (99 Nm) at 6500 rpm, five-speed gearbox, secondary drive via roller chain, double-loop frame made of tubular steel, air-assisted telescopic fork with hydraulically controlled anti-dive, air-assisted central spring strut at the rear, rebound and compression levels each four times adjustable, tire size 110/90 U 18 front, 130 / 80 U 18 rear, suspension travel 130 mm front, 105 mm rear, tank capacity / reserve 18/3 liters, weight 254 kg Test values ​​Maximum speed solo / with pillion passenger 223/203 km / h acceleration 0 – 100 km / h solo / with pillion passenger 3.7 / 4.2 secSpare part pricesHeadlight 528 MarkTachometer 409 MarkTachometer 472 MarkFront wheel 976 Markein silencer 458 MarkCover complete 1733 Mark Pressure sensor 561 MarkLader complete t 4851 Mark four spark plugs 138 Mark one brake disc front 462 Mark petrol filter 28 Mark test in MOTORRAD driving report 10/1983 test 22/1983

interview

Loadmaster Dietmar Weinel on Honda Turbo, IG Turbo and boost pressure

Why did you set up the CX Turbo interest group? I didn’t found it, it already existed. I inherited the office in the spring of 1994. How many members do you have? We are 65 at the moment. But there will be fewer in the future due to lack of mass? At the moment we are still increasing. The Kawasaki and Yamaha Turbo Guilds are also there ? No, we only drive Honda. Don’t you want the others? Or don’t they? Let’s put it this way: The Honda turbos are the best. Seriously? I drove the other two. Honda builds the most reliable. Speaking of reliable. For the known weak points on the alternator, shaft sealing ring of the water pump, the blue sensor of the ignition electronics and the oil hose. Do you get a volume discount for these frequently required parts when you order? Yes, partly through a dealer friend of mine. Is Honda Offenbach still well sorted? Yes, very good, only the prices make you sweat when you hear it Are there any parts that no longer exist? Yes, for example the electronic display, speedometer and tachometer. The right exhaust manifold also looks bad. Have you had experience with increased load jerks? The wastegate could be manipulated, but the injection would then no longer keep up. It’s a bit like bonsai trees. To them too large a quantity of water is not good either. We are glad that our chargers last between 20,000 and 100,000 kilometers, depending on the driving style, if you warm them up carefully. Do you have experience with other charger manufacturers? No, because the series chargers break much less than is rumored. What would a modernized turbo- Honda can do better today? Have a more modern chassis with appropriately sized tires, spring elements and, to top it off, charge air cooling. We also discuss this in the “boost pressure” section. How do you please? This is our magazine, with which we compete with you six times a yearCompetition? How high is your circulation? We can easily get 70 pages per issue? No, readers.

Turbo spare parts: almost no problem

Turbo spare parts: almost no problem

Anyone who thinks that the real spare parts store for the two Honda turbos is in Offenbach am Main could be wrong. Because in Diebach am Haag, also in Hesse, near Budingen, the stuff that Honda turbo victims dream of is stored in at least twenty large light metal containers. Dietmar Weinel owns four CX 650 and two CX 500. The said containers are said to contain spare parts for about the same number of machines. The jewel in his collection is absolutely original and has only run 5000 kilometers. A repainted counterpart as an everyday mule stands in the courtyard and chauffeurs the 34-year-old Hessen every day to Frankfurt, 50 kilometers away, to his job at the post office. This machine has 190,000 kilometers on the counter. Chassis, bolted ComStar wheels and all of the on-board electrics and electronics are still original. After the first 100,000 kilometers, only an almost new engine was installed. “It came from an accident machine and was cheaper than repairing the old one.” The expert is less likely to find out what was wrong with the old one. We guess straight away. “Pistons, cylinders, connecting rod bearings”? When asked, Dietmar Weinel adds: “Not what you think. The loader was still in perfect condition «. The expert has been driving continuously for eleven years – the second and third machines are a Honda XLV 750 and a VFR 750 F – and impresses with this charged version of the good old manure pump.

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